Prime Minister Narendra Modi said that people misunderstand the meaning of, “minimum government, maximum governance”. He said that the efforts must be to increase the speed of work done by government departments and thus, he had made different ministries for skill, cooperatives, and fisheries.

Speaking in a podcast with Zerodha co-founder Nikhil Kamath, which was released on Friday, PM Modi said that the government took away 40,000 compliances to increase the speed of work in different departments.

“We often misunderstand the concept of minimum government, maximum governance. Some believe that minimum government means fewer ministers and fewer employees. However, this is not my understanding. I made different ministries for skill, cooperatives, and fisheries. When I say minimum government…my point is that we took away 40,000 compliances to increase the speed of work. Otherwise, the different departments will demand the same things. If one department has it, use it for all,” PM Modi said.

An enjoyable conversation with @nikhilkamathcio, covering various subjects. Do watch… https://t.co/5Q2RltbnRW

— Narendra Modi (@narendramodi) January 10, 2025

“I have abolished 1,500 old laws. I have changed laws that criminalised certain things. This is my vision of minimum government and maximum governance. I am witnessing it all happen,” he added.

Speaking on India’s technological standing across the world, PM Modi said that India has managed to democratise technology and taught the world how it is done.

“In just thirty seconds, I can transfer money into the accounts of 100 million farmers. I can do the same for cylinder subsidy for 13 crore people in 30 seconds…India has taught the world how to democratise technology. All you need is a mobile. This is a tech-driven century. We have made an innovation commission and innovation fund,” PM Modi said.

Speaking on how India’s perception has changed around the world, PM Modi recalled saying that the day would come when the world would stand in line for an Indian Visa.

“As the head of the state, America had refused me a visa. I held a press conference that day where I had said, “One day the world would stand in line for an Indian visa”. I gave this statement in 2005. Now, it is 2025. I can see that this is now is the time for India… I used to say publicly that you (NRIs) will regret if you don’t come back to India, the world is changing,” PM Modi said.

“I recently visited Kuwait. I went to a labour colony…one labourer asked me when will there be an international airport in my district (in India) …it is this aspiration that will make India Vikist in 2047,” he added.

Emphasising his stand on the issue of war and the recent conflicts around the world, PM Modi said that his stand is not being “neutral” but he was in favour of peace. He said that the advice he has given to countries that are in conflict currently has enhanced the country’s credibility.

“During the Ukraine crisis, we were not neutral. We are in favour of peace. I said that to Russia, Ukraine, Iran, Palestine and Israel. They trust us. This is the reason that India’s credibility has increased…the world has faith in what we say. During corona, our young people were at the centre of the pandemic. I request the Air Force to help with the evacuation. All of them agreed and brought our youth and even our neighbours. If my fellow countryman is in trouble–who will take care of him…if you help out your countrymen anywhere in the world, it also inspires them to do something good,” PM Modi said.

New Delhi:

Prime Minister Narendra Modi has said he is willing to discard old ideas and embrace new ones as long as they fit into his essential ideology of “nation first”.

Appearing for the first time in a podcast, which was hosted by Zerodha co-founder Nikhil Kamath and released on Friday, PM Modi said he sees his success in how he prepares a team who can deftly handle things, as he asserted that there are many young politicians with potential. He declined to name any, saying it will be injustice to many others.

PM Modi said it has been his life’s mantra that he may make mistakes but will not do anything wrong out of bad intentions.

He said, “When I became (Gujarat) chief minister I said I will not spare any effort to work hard. I will not do anything for myself. And, thirdly, I am human and I can make mistakes. But I will not do anything wrong out of bad intentions. I have made it a mantra of my life. Mistakes are inevitable. I must have made mistakes. I am a human too, not a god.”

ALSO READ | PM Modi Reacts To Memes Featuring Italy’s PM Giorgia Meloni

When Mr Kamath asked him if he has planned for the time beyond him, training those he has faith in, not for today but after 20-30 years, PM Modi said, “I can see people with a lot of potential. When I was in Gujarat, I would say that I want to go after preparing (team) for the next 20 years. I am doing it. My success lies in how I prepare my team who will be able to deftly handle things. This is my benchmark for me.”

He said politics needs continuous entry of good people who put mission over ambition, and summarised his ideology as “nation first”.

Asked if he sees such potential in any young politician, PM Modi said they are many of them.

“They toil, they work with a mission. If I say a name it will be injustice to many others. There are a lot of names and faces in front of me. I know details of a lot of people but it is my responsibility to not do injustice to others,” he added.

In the over two-hour podcast, he summarised his ideology as “nation first”.

PM Modi said, “If I have to leave old ideas behind, I am ready to discard them. I am ready to accept new things. but the benchmark should be ‘nation first’. I have only one scale and I don’t change it.”

An enjoyable conversation with @nikhilkamathcio, covering various subjects. Do watch… https://t.co/5Q2RltbnRW

— Narendra Modi (@narendramodi) January 10, 2025

Noting that one-third of seats for MLAs and Lok Sabha members will be reserved for women in the near future, he said women are already present in local bodies due to 50 per cent reservation for them in many states and asked them to work to become as capable as they can be to prepare themselves for assemblies and Parliament.

The prime minister described himself as not a typical politician, and his time is mostly spent on governance.

“I have to make political speeches during elections. It is my compulsion. I don’t like it but I have to do it. All my time is spent on governance outside elections. And when I was not in power, my time was entirely focussed on organisation. On development of human resources…,” he said.

Asserting that he has never confined himself to a comfort zone, PM Modi said his risk-taking ability has hardly been utilised.

“My risk-taking ability is several times more,” he said, adding that it was because he never bothered about himself.

In his third term, PM Modi said he felt more emboldened and his dreams have widened. In the first two terms, he used to judge his work by the progress it has made since he began.

“Now my thoughts are in the context of Viksit Bharat by 2047,” he added.

PM Modi said his thrust on “minimum government maximum government” was misinterpreted by some people who thought it meant fewer ministers or government employees. It was never his concept, he said, noting he created separate ministries such as for skill development and fisheries.

ALSO READ | “If There’s Failure…”: What PM Told Scientists After Chandrayaan-2 Setback

It was about cutting down on lengthy official processes, he said, citing the ending of over 40,000 compliances and the repeal of over 1,500 laws as steps in that direction.

In the podcast which touched on different phases of his life, PM Modi described himself as an ordinary student in school who studied merely to pass the exam but participated in different activities and was always curious.

“My struggles have been the university which has taught me,” he said, noting that his father did not allow him to apply for admission in a sainik school due to lack of money. He, however, was never disappointed, he added.

Recognised for his oratory, PM Modi stressed that communication is more important than oratorial skills and cited the example of Mahatma Gandhi saying that he lived such a life that did the “talking” for him and rallied the nation behind him during the freedom movement.

A thinly built man who was not much of an orator, Mahatma Gandhi did not conform to the profile of a typical politician expected in the current era, he said.

Politics, he said, is not about only contesting elections, and that political life is not easy at all. “Some people are lucky. They don’t have to do anything but they keep getting benefits. I don’t want to get into reasons,” he said in a veiled reference to dynastic politicians.

To a question about the moment that gave him maximum happiness, PM Modi recalled the emotions he felt when he first called up his mother after BJP leaders, which included him, successfully hoisted the national flag at Lal Chowk, an apparent reference to the party’s ‘Ekta Yatra’ in 1992 which was headed by its then president Murli Manohar Joshi.

(Except for the headline, this story has not been edited by NDTV staff and is published from a syndicated feed.)

Prime Minister Narendra Modi, making his podcast debut on Zerodha co-founder Nikhil Kamath’s People by WTF series, said that he is aware of the memes that have been viral on social media for the last 1-2 years related to him and Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni. In this light-hearted conversation, Mr. Kamath asked the question about the viral “Melodi Memes” featuring him and Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni.

Also Read | “I’m Only Human, Not God”: PM Modi In Podcast Debut With Zerodha Chief Nikhil Kamath

“PM Sir, as we are talking about other countries, if I may digress a little, I must say my favourite food is pizza, which originates from Italy. People often say that you know a lot about Italy. Would you like to share something about it? Haven’t you seen those memes?” he asked again.

Watch the video here: 

To this, the Prime Minister responded, “Wo toh chalta rehta hai” (that’s an ongoing thing). “I don’t waste my time on that,” he added.

The two-hour podcast saw the Prime Minister sharing several anecdotes, including aspects of his childhood, education, entering politics, setbacks, handling stress, and policy management, among others.

The podcast trailer was shared by PM Modi himself on X, formerly Twitter. “I hope you all enjoy this as much as we enjoyed creating it for you!” PM Modi wrote.

New Delhi:

Answering a question on handling anxiety during a podcast with Zerodha co-founder Nikhil Kamath, Prime Minister Narendra Modi spoke about the Godhra train burning incident in February 2002 – in which 59 people were killed – which took place just three days after he became an MLA for the first time. 

PM Modi recalled how only a single-engine helicopter was available and his security team did not want him to fly on it. He also spoke about the emotions he felt when he visited the site and how he controlled them. 

The Prime Minister said he became an MLA for the first time on February 24, 2002. He went to the Assembly for the first time three days later, on February 27, and that’s when he heard of the incident. 

“I had been an MLA for only three days. And, suddenly, I came to know about that big incident in Godhra. There was a fire on the train. I came to know, gradually, that people were dead. I was obviously very restless, I was worried. As soon as I came out of the Assembly, I said that I wanted to go to Godhra. So, I told them that we would go to Vadodara and take a helicopter from there. They said that there was no helicopter. I told them to arrange it from somewhere. I guess ONGC (Oil and Natural Gas Corporation) had one. It was a single-engine helicopter. They said they could not take a VIP. I said, ‘I am not a VIP. I am a common man. I will go’,” he said in Hindi.

This, the PM said, led to a big argument and that’s when he offered to give in writing that whatever happened would be his responsibility. 

“And I reached Godhra. Now, with that painful sight… several bodies… you can imagine… I am also a human being, I also felt things. But I was aware that, being in this post… I have to stay detached from my emotions, my natural tendency as a human being. I have to rise above it all. And I did whatever I could to handle myself,” he recalled.

Responding to the anxiety question, the PM also spoke about the Gujarat elections held later that same year. 

“In 2002, there were elections in Gujarat. It was the biggest challenge of my life… I never watched TV and didn’t check the results,” the PM said.

“At 11:00 am or noon, I heard the beat of drums outside the chief minister’s bungalow. I had told everyone not to inform me till 12 pm. Then our operator sent me a letter saying I was leading with a two-thirds majority. So, I don’t believe that nothing affected me that day, but I had a thought to overpower that feeling,” he explained. 

New Delhi:

Offering a very different mantra for handling anxiety, Prime Minister Narendra Modi has said that while he does feel anxious, he is in a position where he has to control his emotions and one way of doing that is to counter restlessness by going along with one’s mission.

In a podcast with Nikhil Kamath, the co-founder of Zerodha, the Prime Minister cited examples of how he dealt with the 2002 Gujarat elections – which he called the biggest challenge of his life – blasts in the state and the Godhra train burning incident.

“You see, to manage these things, everyone has his own ability and individual style… I hold such a position that I have to control my emotions — the natural tendency that human beings have, I will have to stay detached from all of that. I will have to rise above all that. For example, in 2002, there were elections in Gujarat. It was the biggest challenge of my life… I never watched TV and didn’t check the results,” the PM said.

“At 11:00 am or noon, I heard the beat of drums outside the chief minister’s bungalow. I had told everyone not to inform me till 12 pm. Then our operator sent me a letter saying I was leading with a two-thirds majority. So, I don’t believe that nothing affected me that day, but I had a thought to overpower that feeling. You can say that there was restlessness and anxiety inside me,” he explained. 

Talking about bomb blasts in Gujarat, the Prime Minister, who was the chief minister of the state at the time, said he visited hospitals and the police control room despite his security team asking him not to. 

“There were bombings in five places. You can imagine my situation, being the Chief Minister of the state. So, I said that I wanted to go to the police control room. But my security team refused. They said, ‘Sir, it will be unsafe for you to go’. I said, ‘Whatever happens will happen, I will go’. They were very worried. Finally, I sat in the car. I said that I would go to the hospital first. They said that there were bombings in the hospitals too. I said again, ‘Whatever happens, I will go’. You can say that there was restlessness and anxiety inside me. But my approach was that I would go along with my mission. Maybe I experience that in a different way. I feel a sense of responsibility towards it,” he said. 

Recalling the Godhra train burning, PM Modi said he became an MLA for the first time on February 24, 2002. He went to the Assembly for the first time three days later, on February 27.

“I had been an MLA for only three days. And, suddenly, I came to know about that big incident in Godhra. There was a fire on the train. I came to know, gradually, that people were dead. I was obviously very restless, I was worried. As soon as I came out of the Assembly, I said that I wanted to go to Godhra. So, I told them that we would go to Vadodara and take a helicopter from there. They said that there was no helicopter. I told them to arrange it from somewhere. I guess ONGC (Oil and Natural Gas Corporation) had one. It was a single-engine helicopter. They said they could not take a  VIP. I said, ‘I am not a VIP. I am a common man. I will go’.”

The PM said there was a big fight and he offered to give in writing that he would take responsibility for whatever happened and he would go on the single-engine helicopter. 

“And I reached Godhra. Now, with that terrible sight… numerous dead bodies… you can imagine… I am also a human being, I also felt things. But I was aware that, being in this post… I have to stay detached from my emotions, my natural tendency as a human being. I have to rise above it all. And I did whatever I could to handle myself,” he recalled.

PM Modi said that when he interacts with students during ‘Pariksha Pe Charcha’ events, he tells them to treat exams as a routine activity and act accordingly.

Worst-Case Scenarios?

Asked whether his style of thinking was that he would take worst-case scenarios into account, the Prime Minister said, “I have never thought of life or death. This is probably for people who live life in a calculated manner. Perhaps I will not be able to answer this. Because, wherever I am today, I had never planned for that… When I became a chief minister, I was surprised how I became one. So, I had never chosen this path for myself. I have got a responsibility, I am doing it. Doing it well is my objective. But I didn’t start off with this in mind. 

“That is why I don’t know how to calculate. It happens in ordinary life. Perhaps I am an exception. Because my background is such that I can never think like that. My background is such that if I had become a primary school teacher, my mother would have distributed sweets in the locality. She would have said, ‘See, my son has become a teacher’. That is why I never had such aspirations. I never thought, ‘If this doesn’t happen, then what?’ I don’t burden myself with such thoughts,” he added. 

New Delhi:

Prime Minister Narendra Modi had a candid chat with Zerodha co-founder Nikhil Kamath, making his podcast debut on the entrepreneur’s People by WTF series. During the podcast, he spoke about his unexpected journey in politics and how he deals with failures among other things.

“I am not someone who will spend his life crying over a setback… One has to take risks at every moment,” PM Modi said.

Citing the example of Chandrayaan-2, which failed at the last hurdle in 2019, the Prime Minister said that many people didn’t want him to go to the launch event.

“They said, ‘Sir, it is uncertain. Every country in the world has failed. They succeed only after the fourth or sixth attempt. What if something untoward happens?’ I said, ‘So what? Now, don’t I have any responsibility towards it? So I went,” he said.

“(Chandrayaan-2) crashed at the last moment. Everyone present there was worried. No one had the courage to inform the Prime Minister about it,” he added.

PM Modi recalled that he couldn’t sleep that night and decided to meet the team that worked on the mission before he left because “it was a big setback for the country”.

“I am not someone who will spend his life crying over a setback. I went in the morning and told all the scientists, ‘If there is a failure, then it is my responsibility’,” he said, adding he did everything to instil as much “confidence as I could in them. And Chandrayaan-3 was successful”.

Watch:

The mission control lost contact with the Chandrayaan-2 lunar module moments before its slated landing. Back at the ISRO headquarters in Bengaluru, K Sivan broke down. The Prime Minister, who had flown down to the southern city to watch the landing event, hugged and consoled Mr Sivan.

Chandrayaan-3 successfully landed on the moon on August 23, 2023, in a mission seen as crucial to lunar exploration and India’s standing as a space power.

The Prime Minister, during the podcast, also spoke about the lessons from the Chandrayaan-2 failure that he uses in politics.

“You see, taking risks in politics requires a lot of preparation. One has to take risks at every moment,” he said.

In the two-hour podcast, PM Modi also shared about his childhood, education, his journey in politics and how he handles anxiety.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi is the next guest on Nikhil Kamath’s podcast series called ‘People By WTF’, a new trailer has revealed. Earlier, the Zerodha co-founder had sparked buzz online with a teaser of the upcoming episode of his podcast, where he was seen talking to a mysterious guest in Hindi. The promo clip sent social media into a frenzy with many speculating that the guest was none other than PM Modi. Now, the billionaire shared a two-minute trailer of the episode with the caption, “People with The Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi | Ep 6 Trailer”. 

The video shows Mr Kamath in a candid conversation with the Prime Minister. “I am sitting here in front of you and talking, I feel nervous. It’s a tough conversation for me,” the entrepreneur says in the video in Hindi. “This is my first podcast, I don’t know how it’ll go with your audience,” a smiling PM Modi responds. 

PM Modi also reposted Mr Kamath’s post with the caption, “I hope you all enjoy this as much as we enjoyed creating it for you!” 

Watch the video below: 

I hope you all enjoy this as much as we enjoyed creating it for you! https://t.co/xth1Vixohn

— Narendra Modi (@narendramodi) January 9, 2025

In the trailer, the Zerodha co-founder shared his vision for the episode of the podcast, saying that he wanted to draw parallels between politics and entrepreneurship. The billionaire also asked the Prime Minister about the current state of the world, with wars raging in certain parts of the world.

The duo also talked about PM Modi’s old speeches when he was a chief minister. “I said something in an insensitive way. Mistakes happen. I am human, not a God,” he said.

Further, the two discussed the Prime Minister’s two consecutive terms in office. “Growing up in a South Indian middle-class home, we were always told that politics is a dirty game. This belief is so ingrained in our psyche that it is almost impossible to change it. What is your one advice for people who think the same?” Mr Kamath asked.

“If you believed in what you said, we would not be having this conversation,” PM Modi responded. 

Also Read | IIM Graduate Prathyusha Challa Narrates How Her Brother’s 10-Day Marriage Ended In Fake Case

The trailer of the sixth episode has already captivated the audience. However, the exact release date remains a mystery.

Reacting to the trailer, one user wrote, “Massive !! Really looking forward to this episode and this side of Modi Ji.”

“Exciting to see what insights come from this episode! Always interesting to hear from influential leaders,” commented another. “Good to see genuine question being put forth. These are the questions which we as people actually want to ask a PM, for overall benefit of the nation,” expressed a third user.

Notably, the upcoming episode will mark PM Modi’s debut on a podcast. While he already hosts ‘Mann Ki Baat’ and has been part of various television interviews, this will be his first appearance in the podcast format.

1. Nikhil Kamath and his brother Nithin Kamath are the founders of Zerodha, one of India’s largest stock-broking firms. In FY23, Zerodha reported a total revenue of Rs 6,875 crore, along with a profit after tax of Rs 2,907 crore. Nikhil is also the co-founder of True Beacon, an asset management company and Gruhas, a real estate investments and prop tech company.
2. Nikhil Kamath is India’s youngest billionaire. He made it to the Forbes billionaires list in 2023, along with his brother, Nithin. Their combined net worth is Rs 45,754.5 crore.
3. Mr Kamath is also known for his philanthropic endeavours. He joined the Giving Pledge Foundation, started by Warren Buffett and Bill Gates in 2010. This campaign encourages wealthy individuals to give away at least half of their wealth to charitable causes.
4. Nikhil Kamath dropped out of school after the 10th grade at the age of 14 and worked at a call centre for a while.
5. Nikhil Kamath also runs a popular podcast named “WTF is” where he talks to industry experts on business, trends and technology.