Bangladesh will pursue the extradition of ousted Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina from India, says Chief Advisor of its Interim Government Muhammad Yunus, admitting however that he had no objection to her party the Awami League contesting in elections.
In an exclusive interview with The Hindu at his residence in Dhaka, Mr. Yunus spelt out his vision for ties with India and plans for reform. He defended his government’s record in 100 days since it was formed and called reports over the rise of radicalism and safety of the nation’s Hindus and other minorities “propaganda”, which has led to sharp criticism from India and U.S. President-elect Donald Trump.
You have finished 100 days as the chief advisor of the interim government in Bangladesh. How would you grade your government on two major issues- law and order and the economy?
Well, we are still improving on law and order, but I wouldn’t say we have got an ‘A’ yet. On the other issue- I’ll say it’s A-plus because we inherited a shattered economy. All financial institutions and banking systems nearly collapsed. It was a crazy banking system. Bad loans, 60% non-repayment. A large number of banks don’t know how to deal with each other, how to deal with the customers, and so on. So we had an almost dysfunctional financial system. So from there, we built it up, making the banking system function again. It’s not perfect yet, but they’re moving forward. Our foreign exchange reserves went down as we took over responsibility, but now have been growing month on month for the past 100 days. We were able to make our debt payments and that has improved our international image. We are trying to tame inflation down to a level where it’s tolerable. Best of all, we have gotten a tremendous amount of global support— the international community is doing business with us, assuring us of further collaboration opening the door for investments and so on. When I was in the United Nations, at the General Assembly meeting, I met so many heads of government, including President Biden and the head of the President of the European Union, and many more, who promised us financial support and also political support. We have officials who are ready to solve the problems for investors quickly so that they are not caught up in the bureaucratic process of Bangladesh, a one-stop service where you can get things done. So I would say the country is moving in a very positive way.
You’ve certainly drawn a very, positive picture. But are you worried about the future— the election of Donald Trump in the U.S., for example, who issued a very strong statement criticising Bangladesh? How confident are you that international support will continue with the new U.S. administration?
I don’t think President Trump has made any statement about Bangladesh.
He has, on the state of minorities…
Well, that is now about Bangladesh, and on minorities, he is probably not well informed. It’s a propaganda that’s going on around the world. But when he comes to the reality of dealing with Bangladesh, Mr. Trump will be surprised at how different Bangladesh is from the impression he has been given. I don’t think just because there’s a new president in the U.S. means that everything will change. Foreign policies and country-by-country relationships don’t usually change because of a change in the President. Also, if there is a change in Trump 2.0, let us remember there is also a Bangladesh 2.0 now, what we call new Bangladesh. So we will wait, and if U.S. representatives come and check with us, and if our economy is doing well, they’ll be very much interested. They are the largest government buyers from Bangladesh, so from our side, it’s a very good relationship that we’ve built over years. Our hope is that it will be strengthened.
You referred to what Mr. Trump said as propaganda- but it’s not just him. The Indian government has put out a number of statements expressing concern about how Hindus are being targeted, homes burnt, killings in certain cases, even suspected rape. How do you respond to that?
In my first phone call with Prime Minister Modi [On August 16], that’s precisely what he said, that minorities are being treated badly in Bangladesh and so on. I told him, very clearly, that it’s propaganda. After many reporters came here, there were some reports about some tensions, but not in the way that’s been built up in the media.
Who do you think is behind it then?
I don’t know, but this propaganda doesn’t fit into the reality. A very serious group of people have gone into all the cases, one by one…
I have spoken to members of the minority community. They do feel scared. They do feel targeted. There are videos out on Facebook, on social media talking about the fact that Bangladesh will be a Muslim country. We do hear about people in positions of power now talking about changing the constitution to take secularism out of it. There is a sense that what is coming to Bangladesh next, and through your own government, is a much more radical form of Islam than we have seen in Bangladesh in the last 16 years. Is there something that your government can do to reassure these communities ?
Does this [image] fit me? Every single member of the cabinet either is a human rights activist who has suffered themselves, or an environmental activist, or a gender activist or other activist. So these are all activist people. If you say the words that you said in front of them, they will be shouting at you. Go through the lives of each one of the Cabinet members.
So you’re saying no one in your cabinet would push for an Islamist agenda.
Look at the life stories of each one of them. These are very dedicated people. There are women activists. If you think they are the ones who will be championing the kind of rule that you’re describing.
There are other concerns— According to figures released by Human Rights Group Adhikar— 841 people were injured in political violence, and eight died in extra-judicial killings just in September. We hear many journalists have had their accreditations cancelled…some would say your government is continuing the behaviour of the past.
Let people judge, and compare what this government has done, and what the other government has done. I’m not going to debate. We have ensured press freedom. There’s no doubt about it. The accreditation law was not made by us. We just applied it, and you can debate about it, whether it is a correct application. I would like to change that law. That was a law which belonged to some other kind of regime.
Another worry is that people associated with the previous government will be targeted for political revenge. Are there mechanisms you can put in place to ensure that doesn’t happen?
I would say let the rule of law prevail. That’s it.
You have set up so many commissions for reform— why not a commission on minority rights?
We do have a commission on human rights— and why should minorities go separately? I said [to the minority groups], you are a citizen of the country. You have every right guaranteed by the Constitution. We all want human rights to be established and all the rights that the Constitution gives us. See who is on our Constitution commission, and who heads it (U.S.-based academic Ali Riaz) and then try to reconcile with what you are saying…otherwise this is allpropaganda.
If it is believed in a country like India, that’s right next door, or in the United States, has your government then failed to convince people it is propaganda ?
Maybe we don’t have that kind of clout or money power to convince the world otherwise.
You have not so far met Prime Minister Narendra Modi, although you have spoken on the telephone…
Yes, that’s something that hasn’t happened yet. when I came to the UN General Assembly, Mr. Modi had left. I attended the CoP in Baku, but he wasn’t there, BIMSTEC [in Thailand] was cancelled, and neither of us travelled for the Commonwealth CHOGM meet. But that doesn’t mean that we are not going to meet. We are not only neighbours, history has brought us together. Geography has brought us together. Linguistic relationships have brought us together. Cultural links bring us together. From day one, I have proposed to PM Modi to revive the SAARC. Why should it be a dead body? I even suggested that all SAARC leaders could meet in New York, just for five minutes to send out the message that we are still there.
India and Bangladesh now cooperate on BIMSTEC, BBIN. So why SAARC? .
Why not SAARC? The more friends and relationships we can make, the better.
Because with SAARC, India and Pakistan have what seems to be irreconcilable differences…
SAARC must go on… It shouldn’t be that the whole group disappears only because of one relationship between two countries. We can pass a resolution, suspend any India-Pakistan issues from the agenda, but we can’t end SAARC.
Was it then a mistake for Bangladesh in 2016 to support India in suspending SAARC until terrorism ends?
If we put such conditions, no relationship will ever exist. Why should all other South Asian countries suffer because of the relationship between two member countries?
When it comes to the bilateral relationship between India and Bangladesh, how was it affected by the events of August 5? Was it a blow?
Why should it be? India should be celebrating as a friendly country that Bangladesh was liberated from a rule where people suffered, so many were killed, so many disappeared, and so many institutions were destroyed. It should join our young people and celebrate together, like many other nations do.
You have said that Ms. Hasina’s presence in India since August 5 poses difficulties for ties…
[Former PM Hasina’s] living in India, at least for the time being, is not a problem. Talking to Bangladesh is the problem. She is talking to Bangladeshi people, and it is political. She is continuing her political activities, which is the problem.
In what way?
She is asking for them to come out and demonstrate on the streets of Dhaka and other cities, and her audio is being circulated, telling them to hold pictures of [U.S. President-elect] Donald Trump [as shields], so that if the police stop them, they will say the Bangladesh government is against the U.S. This is interfering with the internal and external matters of another country.
Your government has approached Interpol with a request to bring her back- why not request India directly? There are bilateral mechanisms to invoke.
We will use all legal means to get her back.
And yet, your government has not actually asked for an extradition. There’s an extradition treaty.
I think there are legal steps which we are taking towards that, but we have not come to that stage yet.
What if India does not accept the request, invoking clauses on political prosecutions?
Are you saying India would violate the treaty? Yes, there are such clauses, but if the Indian government were to use them to keep [Ms. Hasina] there, that will not make a very happy relationship between us. Our interim government is very short-lived, so it may not be able to settle everything between Bangladesh and India. But this will not be forgiven by any government that comes after us.
Do you foresee India-Bangladesh ties moving smoothly on other issues? Recently we have seen some initiatives on energy connectivity, trade connectivity etc.
Our dream is imagining a relationship like the European Union [with freedom of movement and trade]. That’s the direction we want to go. What you mentioned are good signs and the direction we would like to move in, but far away from what we want to achieve, which is union of very close ties. We are born to be together. We are twins.
How “short lived” is your government? When do you foresee elections?
When we were given the responsibility, it was made clear to us, that we wouldn’t just be a caretaker government, that comes in, holds an election and hands over. We were told that our major responsibility is reform for Bangladesh, 2.0. We didn’t want to stay for long, so we came up with this formulation. The election process began right from day one, as a separate process, and the other process of reforms will move in parallel. Now, first of all, we have created the Election Commission, which is a long, drawn process, and we expect to announce in the coming weeks, the chief election commissioners who will form an independent entity to hold elections. But they cannot hold an election until some other reforms happen- the Commission for constitutional reform will need to decide on whether we will have a bicameral parliament, whether will Bangladesh have proportional representation, terms and term limits and so on.
I would say the train for elections has left the station, but along the way, we have to put the rail down in which direction it will go and that’s why we have to go back to the reform commissions.
Could this take a few years?
I have no idea. People would like to see an elected government, so we will be in a hurry to make the consensus as fast as possible.
Will the Awami League be allowed to contest elections?
This is already announced. We didn’t want to take decisions about the political party, and the BNP (Bangladesh Nationalist Party) has done that, saying that all political parties must contest elections. So they already made the verdict, and we cannot defy the opinion of a major party of the country.
So you have no objection to the Awami League contesting?
I’m not a politician to choose one party or another party. I am facilitating the politicians’ wishes.
You did try to start your own party several years ago (in 2007)…
That was just for 10 weeks, and then I held a press conference and shut it down. Many people put pressure on me, saying that people need a change. We even named the party but that was about it. Even so for the rest of my life I have accused of wanting a political party.
You don’t see yourself as a politician?
I don’t see myself as a politician ever.
